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Topic: Collignon has a new 3 bar

Author: Will Original Message Posted: Nov 15 2010 9:35PM

Watch the video, it is pretty funny actually. Rico completely toys with his opponent, as he probably would with many of us. In the third game he banks a bunch of shots, his 2-5 series is incredible (even though he gets stuffed once). Its worth a watch, I have never played on the P4P Lehmacher table, but it looks like a good table.

Author: Superfly Reply #1 Posted: Nov 15 2010 9:57PM

I can tell i would luv that table, very much like old school Million Dollar tables. I would back pin the heck outta that table.

Author: dfnder Reply #2 Posted: Nov 16 2010 1:01AM

The Lehmacher tables rods are much more heavy than a TS rod. It is easy to shot a short pin but a long backpin is harder. There is a reason that many Europin shooters in the past got called for jarring when they played on tornado - their table requires more physical play. I'm pretty sure the extra weight of the rod is in the men (They rarely break). I have a couple of them kicking around somewhere.

Author: Will Reply #3 Posted: Nov 16 2010 2:14AM

Wow I just watched a bunch more games on the insidefoos channel of youtube. Click on the username to see all the other insidefoos video's, and they have several P4P championships games on there. You can really do some awesome stuff on that table, these guys are consistent with banks that simply are not possible on tornado or warrior or fireball. Crazy stuff and pretty entertaining to watch, it is more exciting than simple pull/roller series that we use primarily over here now that we play on the fast, hard, and precise tornado table.

Author: discosucks Reply #4 Posted: Nov 16 2010 3:35AM

Lehmacher tables used to have solid core rods. They switched to hollow rods just a few years back which makes a huge difference. The weight of a Lehmacher and Tornado bar should be pretty much the same now (I always found a Lehmacher coin-op is jarred much easier, compared to a Tornado coin-op).
I don't know if there is much weight difference in the men (the one's on the Lehmacher are not counterbalanced however).
Long pinshots are easier, but that's more due to a much softer and stickier ball. The shape of the men helps with angling and banking.

Fast tic-tacs are really hard, though :)

Author: The Next One. Reply #5 Posted: Nov 16 2010 6:48AM

Thanks for the insight Mike

Author: dfnder Reply #6 Posted: Nov 16 2010 12:51PM

Yeah It has been a few years since I played on one for sure. I was comparing pinning on the Lehmacher to TS or Pro-Top and I should have clarified that. When I played Lehmacher it wasn't really possible to pin on tornado. I'm surprised that with hollow rods that more wouldn't shoot a pull on the table... pin shots are more fun though


Author: Will Reply #7 Posted: Nov 16 2010 1:51PM

From watching the video's, I would say that it is just too tough to set up a pull consistently on the table, probably becasue the ball is not round.

It seems very similar to a tec-ball, which is made by the same manufacturer(they also make or made the duetcher miester). It is easy to pin the ball because it is light and grippy, but it chips easily so that it wobbles around when it is not pinned. The players do not roll the ball all the way across on the 5 row, they pin it with each man and move it a little bit until the next man can reach it. Even with a lighter rod it is just too tough to shoot a pull becasue the ball keeps moving, also pin shots are very consistent on this table, compared to TS or tornado or anything else I have played on (except bonzini but that table is just really tough to shoot on no matter what)

Author: perennial underdog Reply #8 Posted: Nov 16 2010 8:47PM

These lehmacher tables seem to have a surface not unlike that of a blue top TournamentSoccer table,one which has an extremely sticky playing surface,which allows for near effortless ball control.This also tends to make a player seem much better than he really is.

Author: Superfly Reply #9 Posted: Nov 16 2010 10:04PM

"This also tends to make a player seem much better than he really is."

Completely the opposite ... this allows a player to play more towards their potential. The table will make it easier for more people to play better, what then happens is everyone starts scoring more.

The more skilled players will have to up their games (if they can), to limit the on slot of what you call "seemingly better play".

Author: perennial underdog Reply #10 Posted: Nov 16 2010 11:08PM

Wrong.It is common Knowledge,at least to skilled players,that the faster the playing surface,the more skill that is required of the players playing.By way of comparison,a warrior table is an extremely slow playing table,but unlike a blue top(or a brown top,for that matter) TournamentSoccer(a.k.a.The Million Dollar)table,the warrior table actually lessens a player's skill set.A quality table will allow for both fast play,which requires better control,better hand eye action and reaction,and,overall,faster thinking;and control,which allows a player to manipulate the ball to a certain extent but not so much(and this is a slight exaggeration) that the ball seems as though it's sticking to velcro(sp?).Examples of such tables are the Tornado and the Dynamo,but more so the latter which did not precipitate half as many fluky goals.

Author: Will Reply #11 Posted: Nov 17 2010 3:36AM

PU - it is common Knowledge,at least to skilled players,that the faster the playing surface,the more skill that is required of the players playing"

I do not believe that most skilled players would think that is true. Garlando with the slippery glass surface is much faster than tornado - I'm sure no top tornado players prefer Garlando. The faster the better is simply not true.

The more control the better is also not true, but for some players each side of this spectrum is prefered. Somewhere between a Bonzini (slow and ultra controlled) to a Garlando (no control but ultra fast), lie tables such as Warrior, Tornado, and Fireball. Fireball is fastest, Warrior is slowest. On Warrior I can do so many things that are not possible on Tornado, but on Tornado I can do many things that are not possible on Warrior.

PU - "the warrior table actually lessens a player's skill set"

The warrior table lessens some players skill sets, but also several players can do things on warrior that are just not possible on Tornado. Ryan Moore is a prime example of this, but also Ron olson, me... maybe that is all. Craig Williams I bet loses some of his skill set because of Tornado, but I am not sure about that at all - just saw the 2 bar he had on Warrior and it was pretty crazy. Summarized - it is not the problem of the table, but the player that can not adjust.

Author: The Next One. Reply #12 Posted: Nov 17 2010 5:18AM


Any player putting in table time on any table will get good.

"I don't play Tornado, I play Foosball"

Mario A.

Author: Pixel Reply #13 Posted: Nov 17 2010 2:26PM

Not totally true, Dave. I've put in hours upon hours on the dinner table, but still can't hit a pull-kick worth shit. ;)

Author: Aged Whine & Cheese Reply #14 Posted: Nov 18 2010 4:33AM

Not to mention, when I try the pull kick at the dinner table I usually spray mashed potatoes all over the room.

Author: The Next One. Reply #15 Posted: Nov 18 2010 6:15AM

Sup, "the other Mario" ahahah

See you in Vegas?!

Author: Pixel Reply #16 Posted: Nov 18 2010 5:10PM

Tim - how did you know I was thinking of mashed potatoes?!

Dave - I prefer the "more awesome" mario. ;p I'm actually hoping to make it out to Vegas for the HOFC this time around - never been before...

Author: The Next One. Reply #17 Posted: Nov 18 2010 8:43PM

Yesssss!!! The "more awesome Mario!" I like it. It definately suits ya!! It'll b good to see you again. Tell Nhu i said hello pls.

Author: Aged Whine & Cheese Reply #18 Posted: Nov 19 2010 2:35AM

Mashed potatoes are like a good pull kick. They both look palatable but need something extra to make them work. For a mashed tater eater, you also need some gravy. For a pull kicker, you also need a primary shot like a pull shot or rollover.

Author: Red Pepper Reply #19 Posted: Nov 19 2010 3:30PM

His opponent looked like a beginner.

Garlando is a tough table table to play on, takes a lot of skill to pass the ball and tic tac on that table (anything pin related is much easier though).

I agree with PU's comments above.

Author: perennial underdog Reply #20 Posted: Nov 19 2010 6:50PM

Red pepper is obviously a man with a formidable intellect,if for no other reason than he agreed with the underdog.

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