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Topic: World Cup discussion

Author: Will Original Message Posted: Aug 5 2011 1:43PM

I would love to be part of a team that goes, and also be willing to not go if we can get a strong enough team to go.

Best case scenario would be to see Mario A, Kane G, Eric D, Mario I, and 3 more TOP level players go and represent Canada.

If that doesn't happen, I want to be part of a team, so I'm going to put up a thread here explaining what makes it so much fun.

I should also point out that we have a serious chance of coming home with a World Cup trophy... With almost any team we could field we would be one of the strongest teams in the tournament (because there is now two tiers in the World Cup, and we are in Tier 2 for countries at this point). I would way rather be in the Tier 1 group, but we'll need to win our way back up to that tournament from the looks of things. Maybe once our team is established I'll email the ITSF with a request to move up, if everyone on the team would also like to be in Tier 1.

When I went in 09, the trip changed my life literally. I was pretty rookie at the time, but the pro's on the team really helped cover my weaknesses and win games. It was a huge learning experience and the most fun I have ever had at a Foosball tournament by far. The multi-table aspect is something I really like a lot, and the atmosphere is amazing.

If I am on the team (and we have a team), I'll leave on January 1/2/3 and return on the 11/12/13 or something like that. I might stay for a total of two weeks, that would be the max.

Probably I would fly into Paris or London, but spend at least a couple days in Paris leading up to the tournament, playing on as many tables as possible but also just having a good time in Europe.

If you were going to go to JUST the tournament...
Fly to Paris on the 3rd and return on the 9th, you could probably do the whole trip for about $2000.

My trip will probably be at least $1000 more, but I'll be there for more time, I'd be up for meeting other players in Paris or other cities to hang out before the tournament or spending a few days after the tournament with people too.




Author: Will Reply #1 Posted: Aug 5 2011 2:09PM

3-4 players registered so far.


Author: Sniff Reply #2 Posted: Aug 5 2011 4:31PM

Who registered? I know it's a kind of a weird disclosure issue, but if it came out that Mario and Eric registered, it might affect who else registers. On the flip side if joe blow rookie registered, and his two friends, then that would also have an impact on who registers after.

Will - maybe you can ask permission to post names? or the registers can post themselves (if they agree to my post of course).


Author: foosghost Reply #3 Posted: Aug 5 2011 4:48PM

I'm not part of that 3-4, but I am planning on registering.




Author: domi nate Reply #4 Posted: Aug 5 2011 4:57PM

I'm registered.


Author: Darcy Reply #5 Posted: Aug 5 2011 5:18PM

I think I'd be one of those guys that could fill out the roster if you needed one more or something, but I'm sure you'll have enough desire to go if this gets organized and I definitely don't deserve to take a spot from someone more experienced.

Good luck with getting the team together!


Author: Barry Reply #6 Posted: Aug 5 2011 5:25PM

Will, Just my opinion, but if it was up to me, I would keep the names of those registered confidential until after the deadline for exactly the reasons that Jeff stated. People should choose to participate or not, based on their interest in representing their country, and not on who else is or isn't participating. If a player will only register if another specific player does or doesn't, than let them work that out amongst themselves.

imho


Author: Darcy Reply #7 Posted: Aug 5 2011 5:28PM

I'm only going if Barry goes!


Author: Barry Reply #8 Posted: Aug 5 2011 5:29PM

Thanks Darcy!


Author: foosghost Reply #9 Posted: Aug 5 2011 5:52PM

I'm not entirely sure I agree with Barry here.

For some players, yes they should go and have the chance to represent their country to experience the World Cup. Words cannot describe the sheer amazing experience it is to represent your country at the World Cup. The show they put on there is beyond anything you've ever experienced in North America.

For some other players, who've been there before, it's now about being competitive - and might only want to go if they feel the team can be a competitive one. I'm not saying i'm in this category, but i can understand if some other players are.

This is a massive investment of time and money - and different players will think it's worth it for different reasons.


Author: Will Reply #10 Posted: Aug 5 2011 6:09PM

I'll let people remain anonymous if they want to, but I hope that everyone that is considering attending registers regardless of who has signed up so far.

Once the registration date is past, I'll send an email out to all registered players. If you want to back out when you see the list of players feel free to withdraw at that time.

This way if we have 13-14 players registered we can pick the best team possible at that time in a fair method that is agreed upon by the 13-14 players that it actually matters to.


Author: Will Reply #11 Posted: Aug 5 2011 6:13PM

Like I said originally, I certainly agree with the idea of fielding the most competitive team possible. If we get a lot of rookies that register, I would not agree with putting one or more of them on the team in place of a strong player that wants to go.

In the past we haven't fielded teams - partially because we tried to do qualifying etc that limited participation. If we can get 7 top players, then I think everyone will agree to send those players. If not, then you can cancel with no risk before you put any money down towards the trip.

I do encourage players to post that they have registered, but I don't want to be the one putting there names up here.


Author: Barry Reply #12 Posted: Aug 5 2011 9:30PM

I hear you Eric. I guess I just want to encourage people to register without fear of a bunch of people that aren't involved voicing their opinions as to whether they are qualified or not.

In the end, I would hope that we would find a fair way to pick the best team out of those that register.


Author: foosghost Reply #13 Posted: Aug 5 2011 11:47PM

Good point Barry. I think Will has found the right solution.


Author: hardboiled Reply #14 Posted: Aug 6 2011 8:44PM

unless & until this sport/game/hobby/condition/pastime/drinking excuse we do gets a non-arbitrary independent ranking system, 'foosball' will remain in the ghetto of activities such as 'competitive eating' or 'turnip of the year: Anusfull County Championships'





Author: ButHeDoesntLookAsian Reply #15 Posted: Aug 6 2011 11:19PM

I registered for seniors but happy to yield in favour of a stronger senior player. The senior teams were good but not unbeatable. Will, Canada can only register Senior dubs and singles not a full senior team is that right?

My 2 cents: the ideal situation for all Canadian teams including senior team is to have a multi play specialist that can play forward on the non-Tornado tables (or more likely Fireball by then) i.e. someone with Italian or French table experience. So expecting that will be someone from Ontario and East to go with strong Tornado/Fireball specialist from Ontario and West.

That is just a guess on my part in terms of Geography. It doesn't matter where they come from, it does matter how well the players mesh for what is is still a multi table format. If Canada draws the U.S. and plays on Tornado or Fireball I think Canada has a chance but would not be favored. If we draw say another team that prefers a Euro table then flip the partners for each table, Canada should have a solid chance of defeating anyone. Belgium obviously has Fred but after that they get pretty thin fast on players with Tornado experience. U.K., Austria and Germany have some very good players with experience on all tables but they would not be an overwhelming favourite against Canada and I think our chances against them are pretty good.

If we get teams that have multi-table expertise and enough of our elite players attending, then Canada definitely has a solid shot at winning. I no longer support the ITSF based on their lack of democracy as evidenced in the Fireball table vote, but neither do I think that their competitions should be ignored. Their rankings should though. They are biased and non-representative. I don't hate them for it but neither am I drinking their kool-aid.

I was asked to consider being an at large ITSF representative in Asia but declined. Their Executive is not fully representative and voting members really have no voice if they are not on the Executive. That is as political as I will get on the subject as Will is right that is not the point of this thread. I am not seeking ITSF certification for my own tournaments here in China and don't plan on promoting the China Open that likely will get ITSF certified but might show up as a player.

On my end, I will try to work with Dennis on nailing down what is possible on a multi-play Fireball table. I will try to figure out a best scenario situation and let people know the costs and steps involved. If using a Fireball table as a base then getting special bearings (bushings really) is easy to do. The key is having the rods, handles, men etc. Getting those by themselves might be difficult but still obviously less expensive than getting the entire table.

I am hoping the Ontario and East players get in on this thread as it seems getting enough good Tornado/Fireball players is fairly do-able. The key is the multi-play players from Ontario and East.

Thanks Will for leading this and good luck to Team Canada no matter who is on the team.

Shanghai Open October 28-30 for anyone travelling to Asia at that time.

Fred Gower


Author: Will Reply #16 Posted: Aug 7 2011 2:12PM

"I registered for seniors but happy to yield in favour of a stronger senior player. The senior teams were good but not unbeatable. Will, Canada can only register Senior dubs and singles not a full senior team is that right?"

It is my understanding that we can register a full senior team, but only if we get a minimum of 3 and preferably 4 players to field a full team. I believe we only have one singles spot and one doubles spot, but I will dig a little deeper now that we have a little bit of senior interest.

"If Canada draws the U.S. and plays on Tornado or Fireball I think Canada has a chance but would not be favored. If we draw say another team that prefers a Euro table then flip the partners for each table, Canada should have a solid chance of defeating anyone. Belgium obviously has Fred but after that they get pretty thin fast on players with Tornado experience. U.K., Austria and Germany have some very good players with experience on all tables but they would not be an overwhelming favourite against Canada and I think our chances against them are pretty good. "

In Menís groups, we wonít be drawing any of the above mentioned teams unless somehow we can get put into the tier 1 tournament. Right now we are classified as a tier 2 team because we donít have many ITSF points (because we donít have many ITSF tournaments to gain points in).

Division 1 is:
USA
DENMARK
GERMANY
AUSTRIA
SWITZERLAND
UK
FRANCE
SLOVAKIA
CZECH REPUBLIC
BELGIUM
NETHERLANDS
LUXEMBOURG
IRAN
POLAND
SPAIN
PORTUGAL

Everyone else is in Div 2, including:
MOROCCO
JAPAN
ITALY
TURKEY
SOUTH AFRICA
RUSSIA
SLOVENIA
BRAZIL
INDIA
FINLAND
CANADA
ETC.

It might just be my opinion, but I think that even a team of Expert ranked players from Canada would mop the floor with those teams, or have a really good chance of winning.


"I am hoping the Ontario and East players get in on this thread as it seems getting enough good Tornado/Fireball players is fairly do-able. The key is the multi-play players from Ontario and East."

The Ontario guys that have Team Play to train at are probably doing well, I know they do weekly multi-table DYPís. Still our biggest advantage as a nation is having guys like Dom, Julien and the other Bonzini guys that are really strong on Tornado too. Not saying the Ontario guys arenít doing it right, because it is really cool that they have those tables, but without having experienced multi-table players to compete with it is hard to improve on the other tables much.

"Thanks Will for leading this and good luck to Team Canada no matter who is on the team."

I just want to make sure that a team shows up this year, and hopefully gets us into tier 1 for next year. It would also be awesome to see a team like Moya, Linda, Audrey, and another girl show up and win womens. I really think we would have a shot at winning that one!



Author: Darcy Reply #17 Posted: Aug 9 2011 10:23AM

Just a thought that might make it easier. Has anyone tried to apply for an incorporation on behalf of TSAC?

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pbg/tf/t1189/README.html

Incorporating as a federally recognized amateur sport association would allow tsac to accept donations and return tax receipts to organizations making said donations. It would definitely make sponsorship pitches easier and that might filter down to the players.

If we can (maybe not this year) get enough sponsorships this way to pay for a full roster to travel to worlds I would guess that everyone would want to go and thusly make the field much more competetive.


Author: tony Reply #18 Posted: Aug 9 2011 9:09PM

Darcy,

Your suggestion, while somewhat noble, would not fly with CRA. Even if you declared any / all foosball winnings (laughable), you wouldn't be able to get past a level 1 Audit. I work with qualified accountants on a daily basis and can validate this if need be.

Will,

Why doesn't EFL and it's membership consider something in much smaller but similar scale to the Groupon model?

Group buying power = discounts - discounts taken and contributed to fundraising, etc etc.


Author: Darcy Reply #19 Posted: Aug 10 2011 12:38AM

Tony, your argument doesn't apply. TSAC is a non-profit organization looking to field a competetive Foosball team for international events.

You're not sponsoring individuals, you're sponsoring an organization that doesn't make money.


Author: subcult36 Reply #20 Posted: Aug 10 2011 1:57PM

"I am hoping the Ontario and East players get in on this thread as it seems getting enough good Tornado/Fireball players is fairly do-able. The key is the multi-play players from Ontario and East."

Hey thanks for the party invite!! We brought a keg and our swimmies!

Will, I think the approach is good and expect interest from the Ontario players... and considering we actually have an ITSF certified training centre, it'd be pretty weak if we didn't at least try to represent ourselves. And yeah, I think we'd have a great shot at winning Tier 2, but think we should wait to see what the team actually looks like before we apply for Tier 1 status.


Author: Will Reply #21 Posted: Aug 10 2011 4:11PM

I doubt an application for tier 1 status would be accepted anyway, but I wouldn't apply unless the team as a whole decided applying is worth it and wanted by a majority.

I hope that a few more east players sign up!

We now have 8 registered players including two senior participants.

One more senior would give us a senior world cup team!


Author: tony Reply #22 Posted: Aug 10 2011 7:05PM

at events that dont give out prize money? which isn't taxable as worldwide income? or should we open up TSAC's books as well? does TSAC have books will? eric? i don't have time to read the constitution.....




Author: S. Edwards Reply #23 Posted: Aug 10 2011 8:42PM

Hah, but you have time to read the message board


Author: Darcy Reply #24 Posted: Aug 10 2011 10:13PM

I think we're confusing the point here. I don't want to make the thread about sponsorships but just to reiterate. Companies wouldn't be sponsoring individual players. They'd be sponsoring a non-profit organization that is attempting to grow foosball on a national level.

As a part of that growth TSAC (the non-profit organization) would use some of that sponsorship money to field a team to send to worlds in france. What the individuals make in terms of winnings doesn't factor in my understanding of the legislation. But again, I'm not an accountant maybe you have more information than I do. I just wanted to make sure we have investigated the possibility.


Author: foosghost Reply #25 Posted: Aug 11 2011 1:21AM

The TSAC books have always been open - they're viewable here

http://tablesoccerca.ning.com/forum/topics/1985405:Topic:601

as they have been for many years


Author: tony Reply #26 Posted: Aug 11 2011 5:58PM

Eric,

Thanks for that info. I didn't think it was viewable unless you were TSAC Exec. At least there's money in the bank.

Simon, i read well. defenses too.



Author: Will Reply #27 Posted: Aug 18 2011 4:55PM

More than enough players signed up. Just over a week left to register!

Email will_stranks@hotmail.com if you are interested in representing Canada at the World Cup!


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