Topic: ITSF Worlds - what does it all mean?

Author: ButHeDoesntLookAsian Original Message Posted: Jan 9 2012 9:22AM

I did not watch the streaming but can't stop thinking about what this all means. So for any of you who did...

1. Did the U.S. not win Singles, Doubles or Team events because:
A) you can't win em all.
B) Tornado is no longer one of the official tables. See question number 2.
C) The U.S. did not send their best team for whatever reason.
D) other teams are getting better.

2. Is Fireball easier to play on than is Tornado and did that hurt Tornado favored countries like the U.S.?

If this is true, will that lead to more countries top players refusing to go to ITSF major events in Europe and in caring even less about ITSF local events going forward?

And what does that say for Bonzini ever making their table friendlier for non-Bonzini players?

3. Iran. They almost beat the Belgians who went on to win the gold medal. When I have seen their players in the past they definitely have some talent but they shoot a LOT from the 5 bar. Did they do this in Nantes? Was it working? Just how well did they play?

4. The UAE, and Malaysia don't seem interested in ITSF events due to the cost of attending and their lack of multiple table experience. The top Canadian players don't see the economics working out either. If this trend continues, how can the ITSF legitimately call itself the head of all table soccer federations?

5. If there is not equal availability to ITSF events worldwide then does this create a bias and do the ITSF rankings mean anything?

For the record, I was pro ITSF for a long time but now am pro ITSF in theory and looking for them to become more democratic, transparent, and global in practice. My preference is to play on Tornado but I will happily play on Fireball if my opponent's playing style is better on it. I appreciate the skill of Bonzini players but hate playing on the table. I was an average player at best and am retired now from big competitions but if my opinions resonate with others then they deserve to be considered. I love international play and hope it continues. Multi-table events are fun but kind of silly as is calling any single table worked championship a true world championship. Paying too much attention to rankings is silly. They are always biased and should only be used to group players. But they are still necessary. I think it is great what team Canada did and didn't want to steal any of their thunder by posting this on the Canada wide or other bigger boards.

Author: ButHeDoesntLookAsian Reply #1 Posted: Jan 9 2012 9:26AM

In last paragraph "worked" should be "world".

Author: foosghost Reply #2 Posted: Jan 9 2012 11:10AM

I watched quite a bit of the streaming - so probably those there were actually there might have a better understanding, but from what i saw, its a combination of 3 of those things:
1. The USA did not send their best team - yes they had billy, ryan, and tony playing singles - and for the most part won every match, but when they did get beat by germany - ryan lost his singles match. Their doubles teams were strong, but not what they had in the past - for example - Robert Mares and Dan Barber is not as strong as say Adrian Zamora and Robert Mares. So their doubles teams were weaker than previous years. Add to the fact that they might of made a mistake in how they layed out their team - as when they lost to germany, tony never got to play - so if 1 of their singles was beat - and they lost both the doubles, then tony did not even play - which is a major mistake in my mind - anyways..

2. The other thing is that the other countries are all getting better on north american tables - i don't think it was a matter of fireball vs tornado in this regard - as they were all shooting snakes - i don't recall any team who won on fireball shooting a euro - those that scored well did so with snakes and hustle / slop.

3. The americans were not as dominant on fireball - as fireball appeared to not be as consistent for the US players - were often i'd see them fighting with the ball to get it were they wanted - and not focusing on the defense, or their pass.

As for bonzini - from what i saw - it did appear non bonzini players had an easier time on it - pull shooters did not appear to have to have the ball so far forward - and passes appeared easier - so either players are getting used to bonzini, or there were so changes to allow that to happen.

If the majority of tournaments in north america continue to be on Tornado, and Tornado remains out of the ITSF - then yes, i would imagine a decline in interest in the ITSF. But if fireball steps up, and runs larger tournaments, with the possibility of a WCS (World Championship Series) - as they are supposed to do - then fireball can help alleviate that.

Personally if fireball runs a WCS at the same level as traditional tornado world championships in the past - then i'm selling my tornado for a fireball - and probably buying a bonzini as well to get ready for next years world cup.

To me it's always been about what's the table to be measured on (as in where do the best players compete and where the largest tournaments occur) - and that's the table i'll practice and play on. Even if Tornado is a 'better' table.

to answer #5 above - to me the ITSF rankings has never meant anything if you don't stand a chance to get into the top 16 - mostly for the reasons you state above - in the last 2 years even more so, there's been a major bias - as our world championships have not counted towards ITSF points - this also includes national team points as well - as our teams do not have the ability to earn points without going over seas. I'm hoping fireball will change this.

Author: ButHeDoesntLookAsian Reply #3 Posted: Jan 9 2012 4:54PM

Thanks for the detailed answer. I was considering going as a senior and was hoping some other Bonzini specialist from Quebec or wherever would double up with me. I play forward on snake friendly table, he plays forward on Euro favored table. Non of the senior teams I saw looked unbeatable. But then the only other senior to show interest was also a Tornado player so not a good complement there and then our Africa trip took shape so there went my travel budget.

Did anyone get to see Iran play on the streaming? They played well at the Asia Open if a bit unorthodox. India continues to go to every event due to good funding but are still well behind in skill level.

China unlikely to go due to funding visas and Other issues.

Author: foosghost Reply #4 Posted: Jan 9 2012 5:11PM

grrr - Barry now that you're back fix this site so one can edit their posts after posting!! B-)

when i said, "so probably those there were actually there might have a better understanding"

that makes absolutely no sense...

i meant "so probably those THAT were actually there might have a better understanding"

that sounds better - yikes

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