Topic: 2013 League Schedule is up!

Author: WELL-ZE Original Message Posted: Jan 17 2013 6:14PM

Hello everyone

I have posted the 2013 league schedule. Let me know if you see any problems with it.

I will be taking over scheduling and updating team points etc. Captains please send me game results by Wednesday so I can have points updated by Thursday. You can e-mail them ( or even text a photo of the game sheet to 780-476-8295.

Not done yet!

I need to update team rosters. I have no contact information for Crown Pub and Das Foos (Will's computer crapped out and he lost your info). Foos bros who is on your team? Captains of these teams send me your roster and contact info of players.

Almost done!

League is about playing hard and having fun... If you have any issues with any players conduct (abusive language, violent behavior, vandalism, etc) let me or Will Strank know and we will sort it out.

Have fun and if you have any comments post them!!!

Author: .Garry Reply #1 Posted: Jan 18 2013 6:32AM

Comment...Cannot get the NEWS link to work to see the schedule.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #2 Posted: Jan 18 2013 9:33AM

Same here!

Author: Chatter_Box Reply #3 Posted: Jan 21 2013 9:59AM

Hey Kyle,

half my team can't make it Tuesday (every tues) until 9. Is it possible to change our start time to 9 instead?

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #4 Posted: Jan 21 2013 10:09AM

Hi Karli

If all goes well I will have updates posted by tonight (this is assuming I am playing). I will change your start time if this is the case :)

Author: Chris.K Reply #5 Posted: Jan 21 2013 10:10AM

Hey buddy, sorry to hear that BTY is not happenin. What if we made it a 2 tear league instead of 3? Just thinkin.

Author: Darcy Reply #6 Posted: Jan 21 2013 10:10AM

I'd like to recommend starting the new schedule in February, it's hard enough to plan around what's going to happen with 4 days notice but my team can't really function based on one day notice.

To that end if the season starts tomorrow I can't promise FU will be able to play, unfortunately.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #7 Posted: Jan 21 2013 11:06AM

OK folks

Here is the deal

League Starts February 5th, 2013!!!

Team X (formerly BTY) will consist of Christian, Kyle, Ricardo, (possibly Jamie) and Steve as an alternate. Team X will have an official name and roster by next week and will be still playing out of BH west.

Here is the new league format. Let me know if you like or dislike

The league will now have two tiers (1 and 2) each with 6 teams. In T1 and T2 each team will play each other twice (taking 10 weeks). For finals, the top 4 in T1 will face off; 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd (first week of finals) and winners play each other (second week of finals). The bottom four teams of T2 face off; 3rd vs 6th and 4th vs 5th (first week of finals) and winners play each other (second week of finals).
Finally, The bottom two teams of T1 and top two teams of T2 face off; T1 5th vs T2 1st and T1 6th vs T2 2nd (first week of finals) and winners play each other to determine who moves up and who moves down (second week of finals)

I like this format, what do you guys think? No comments mean we have consensus and the schedule will be up by the weekend

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #8 Posted: Jan 21 2013 11:10AM

Just to clarify this new format takes 12 weeks to complete, which has a nice flow (four rounds per year)!

Author: Darcy Reply #9 Posted: Jan 21 2013 11:16AM

That sounds good Kyle, I like the effort you're putting in here. If we're doing 12 weeks (3 months) I'd really prefer doing a seasonal league. Maybe run it twice a year, or three times. That might allow for the league to run and then a break for guys who prefer dyp's and such in between.

Either way sounds good to me though.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #10 Posted: Jan 21 2013 11:29AM

I have no contact information for Crown Pub and Das Foos? Does anyone know who these guys are? Please send me your updated roster if your team has underwent any changes

Author: Cam. Reply #11 Posted: Jan 21 2013 11:29AM

I agree with and Darcy. I like the idea of having it 3 times per year, this gives a little break after the 12 weeks!

Author: Cam. Reply #12 Posted: Jan 21 2013 11:30AM

I work with a few guys from Das foos, I'll give them your number today when I see them!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #13 Posted: Jan 21 2013 11:40AM

Thanks everyone

I agree too. A three month break during summer might work well. Attendance usually dies off during these months. We could run a classic (dyp, byp, singles ect) Tuesday night during these months

Author: Will Reply #14 Posted: Jan 21 2013 3:35PM

I like Darcy's idea too (2 or 3 times a year). Do the league once in the spring and once in the fall, then fill in the rest with weekly events.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #15 Posted: Jan 22 2013 12:41PM

Does the league have any tables at Elephant and Castle? I am looking for a new home table, something central.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #16 Posted: Jan 26 2013 7:30PM

Schedule is up, please let me know immediately if you see any problems with it. Don't forget to text me a photo of the game sheet 7804768295

Good Luck

Author: .Garry Reply #17 Posted: Jan 27 2013 12:30AM

The first 5 weeks are the exact same as the 2nd 5; the home teams and away teams are the same week 1/6, 2/7 etc

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #18 Posted: Jan 27 2013 12:16PM

Thanks Garry, I am aware, I was having problems with the schedule at first because the vast majority of teams from T1 and T2 want TO as homecourt. To add to problems, I was trying to switch BTY over to E&C which was complicating matters further.

So I revised the schedule (same sort of rotation (repeat sixth week)) and changed around Home and Visitor where I could. To help BTY is moving back at Beer Hunter West. I just had to make sure EEFC did not play BTY there.

Thank you Conrad for pointing out the error in dates (copy paste fails me at times :))

Once again let me know if you see any problems

Author: N8Perrott Reply #19 Posted: Feb 1 2013 9:20AM

Comment from Tier Two! The table at Crown Pub is NOT up to league standards and should be removed as a home table from the schedule. Team Crown Pub should find a new home venue.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #20 Posted: Feb 1 2013 9:41AM

Hi Nathan,

I appreciate your feedback. I have not heard back from team Crown Pub. Does anyone have a contact for their team? Do we know who owns the table? (is it an EFL member). We have extra room at E&C whyte and Beerhunter West, but if we can get the owner to repair the table (or I can repair it at a cost) that would work too. How bad is it?

Kyle from Das Foos (Kyle, Bret, Ben and Jesse). Can you text me last names and contact numbers and e-mails for your team mates sometime in the next couple of weeks (even if you write it on the game sheet you will be sending me on Tuesday that would be great).

Final note...

If you know your team is going to need a later start time you need to let that team know. I was going to make adjustments to the schedule when needed, however this is a pain in the ass...

I am excited to get playing

Author: N8Perrott Reply #21 Posted: Feb 1 2013 2:51PM

Will has the guys at Crown Pubs contact info. The owner of the bar owns the table.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #22 Posted: Feb 1 2013 5:22PM


I have talked with Jake Goin from Crown Foos. Jake, Andrew, Brandon and Mike from Crown Foos are aware the new season is starting and are ready to play.

Jake is the owner of Crown Pub and the foosball table there. I asked Jake about the condition of the table and he told me the table was in great working condition; no broken men, clean surface, no bent bars, no ripped bumpers and a florescent light.
Next game could Taras, Karli or Eliot confirm the table is up to league standards? Thanks...

I told Jake I can put him in touch with Darcy if he needs any parts and he was happy to hear this.

Next issue

I received word from Kyle Jones that his team (das foos) bailed on him :( His brother wants to play though so all we need is two more people to join his team! I will contact Bob and Bob's brother to see if they are interested but if anybody knows anybody that wants to play let me know and I can pass along Kyle's contact info

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #23 Posted: Feb 1 2013 5:24PM


Thank you Will for passing along Jake's number

Author: Will Reply #24 Posted: Feb 3 2013 12:36PM

Thanks for taking care of scheduling for me! I'm excited for another league season, and I'm excited about the longer season format. Great ideas and implementation of them!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #25 Posted: Feb 4 2013 8:27AM


Das Foos is ready to rock Kyle Jones and his brother, Ahmed and his brother, and Ed....right on!

Author: Chatter_Box Reply #26 Posted: Feb 4 2013 12:22PM

Hey Kyle,

I still work until 845 on tuesdays so my team can't be there until 9ish! Can we let Crown Pub know and change the schedule?

Author: Chatter_Box Reply #27 Posted: Feb 4 2013 12:24PM

Sorry just read other posts....can I have Jakes info so I can contact him please

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #28 Posted: Feb 4 2013 12:27PM

No problem Karli

Jake Goin 587 920 6441

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #29 Posted: Feb 6 2013 12:00PM


Points from Week 1 are up!!!

Great job everyone for getting their points in to me on time. BTY had a blast playing Foosbrothers

New committee has been formed to deal with club issues (scheduling, format preferences, tournament planning, disciplinary actions, etc). I would like to thank Will for organizing the committee composed of Will (President, founder), Chad (founder), Kyle (Administrative Assistant), Roger and Darcy (respected players) and I look forward to working with you guys

See you all next week and don't forget Dukes on Thursday and OverTime on Saturday if you want to get some practice games in

Author: Cam. Reply #30 Posted: Feb 6 2013 12:03PM

Timeout on Saturday*

Author: Darcy Reply #31 Posted: Feb 6 2013 12:06PM

I'm on a what now?

Author: Cam. Reply #32 Posted: Feb 6 2013 12:07PM

You're on a new committee, Darcy.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #33 Posted: Feb 6 2013 12:10PM

OOps thx for that catch Cam Yes Timeout on Saturday

Darcy, Will sent me a line saying he talked to you. If he didn't, you are on the committee

Author: .Garry Reply #34 Posted: Feb 6 2013 5:53PM

"I'm on a what now?"


You are on a ...slingshot streak!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #35 Posted: Feb 12 2013 12:12PM


-Team Cunning Stunts is unable to play tonight (one member is sick, one member is taking care of the sick and the other two are off to support the orange and blue....Lucky you). Team Foosballers and Cunning Stunts have agreed to play each other back to back March 19 2013

-I am still working on finding a new home for BTY. This week is fine because we play at Dukes, however next week we will need a new venue.


Play hard and have fun!!! Team BTY looking forward to facing off against FU tonight!!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #36 Posted: Feb 12 2013 12:12PM


-Team Cunning Stunts is unable to play tonight (one member is sick, one member is taking care of the sick and the other two are off to support the orange and blue....Lucky you). Team Foosballers and Cunning Stunts have agreed to play each other back to back March 19 2013

-I am still working on finding a new home for BTY. This week is fine because we play at Dukes, however next week we will need a new venue.


Play hard and have fun!!! Team BTY looking forward to facing off against FU tonight!!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #37 Posted: Feb 12 2013 12:15PM

One more thing....Foosballers are heading down to TimeOut tonight for pickup games (now that there is an open table). I learned from Chris Beauchemin from Foosballers that this will be their first time playing out of TimeOut. Be sure to swingby the pickup table and have them a few games....they are coming from St Albert!!

Author: Cam. Reply #38 Posted: Feb 13 2013 3:18PM

Last night Crown Pub did not show up to their game and didn't tell the other team they weren't going to be there. This is unfair for players who go out of their way to make it to the games weekly. Any thoughts from the new committee?

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #39 Posted: Feb 13 2013 5:13PM

Thanks Cam,

Kyle from Dasfoos contacted me last night from Crown Pub. Not only was Team Crown not present, but the pub was closed. I suspect Jake was at the Oilers game.

I admit I am a little disappointed about the situation. You are right, people go out of there way to make it out and the other team should make the effort too.

I tried contacting Jake today at lunch and he has not returned my call. Furthermore Will has let me know this is not the first time Crown has bailed on a game. I was willing to let them reschedule or forfeit, however I personally think it is time for them to leave the league.
Kimber, Will, Darcy, Chad what are your thoughts?

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #40 Posted: Feb 13 2013 5:19PM

@all league members

Shit happens! If your team can't make it out, let me know, so I can contact the other team on your behalf and make alternative arrangements

Author: .Garry Reply #41 Posted: Feb 15 2013 11:06AM

Week 2 Update?

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #42 Posted: Feb 15 2013 3:01PM


-Week 2 points update is up under news section
-Good job FU in taking the lead

-I have been in contact with team Crown Pub. Jake Goin was in the hospital last week with a severe lung infection and is now out and recovering. I have talked to the captains of both teams and they both agreed they prefer to rescedule for March 19th. This means they will need to either double their final points or play back to back. I will figure it out later.
-I have been listening to members of the league and few have suggested that a deposit be taken from teams. In the event a team doesnt show a portion of the deposit will be given to the other team. Another suggestion is a three strike rule. Your thoughts?

Author: .Garry Reply #43 Posted: Feb 16 2013 12:54PM

Don't know about the deposit idea, the 3 strikes rule should be implemented.

I personally think there should be some sort of reward for winning Tier 1 or Tier 2, and have said this since day 1 of the Team League. $ is not what I am suggesting. What would work I believe is a Team entry $20/team??? that goes towards the winning Teams-trophies???

Just my 2 cents.

Author: Will Reply #44 Posted: Feb 16 2013 2:31PM

I think Garry is spot on. I don't think many teams would actually have an issue putting up $20-$50 a team for a 3 month season. I mean even at $50 with 5 players on a team its $10 each for a 12 week season. With no registration fee teams are WAY more likely to not show up, or to quit half way through.

If all the teams pitched money we would also be able to buy some cool trophies. We could have team trophies for the winners of each tier but we could also have "MVP", "Most Improved", "Best Goalie", "Best 2 Bar", "Most Sportsmanlike Player".

Author: N8Perrott Reply #45 Posted: Feb 20 2013 9:27AM

I agree a registration fee would be alright! Trophies are cool and all but maybe we could use the money to buy the winning team a gift card to their home pub also? $40 bucks a team would be a fair amount i think.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #46 Posted: Feb 20 2013 10:16AM


- I would like to thank all Captains for sending me the final scores right after the game!
- BTY played OOR last night and I can honestly say it was one of the funnest match ups yet. Great foosin OOR!
- Three strikes rule has been implemented this round
- Next season I will be taking registration fees ($50 per team = $300 per tier). I will talk with the committee on how these funds will be divided in the end

See ya all Thursday for the epic showdown at Dukes

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #47 Posted: Feb 26 2013 8:51AM

Hello everyone,

Tonight is league!!!

Check the schedule!!!!

I am pumped to play tonight. BTY has three spares Jordan, Matt and Jamie. Jamie used to be on team BTY but has opted to be a T1 spare instead.

On that note, I wish to get an official spare list going. So far I have Jamie, Tobin, Rick, Steve... if you guys can think of anyone else who enjoys playing but can't commit full time let me know please.

BTY is looking for one more permanent player. We have Christian, Ricardo and me. Steve would like to play full time however his work takes him out of the city for extended periods so he will be on the spare list instead. If you are new to the league or want to jump ship let me know

Play hard and have fun and don't forget to send me points at the end of the night

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #48 Posted: Feb 26 2013 2:23PM

I would like to thank Tobin and Jamie for helping out T2 team DasFoos as they battle top T2 team RockinRollers. I know Kyle Jones from DasFoos is looking forward to learning a few things from these veterans ;)

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #49 Posted: Feb 26 2013 2:27PM

Actually they play Cunning Stunts!!!!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #50 Posted: Feb 26 2013 2:28PM

2nd place team!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #51 Posted: Feb 27 2013 12:14PM


What a great night of foosball!!!

Matt (calgary) and Jordan (saskabush) subbed for BTY giving BTY a megaboost of talent, however EEFC came out strong and won the game 95-83. Will played well against Matt beating him both games (good work) other than that most matches were close in score.

Jamie and Tobin subbed for dasfoos giving them a megaboost of talent too. Will and I disagreed on whether putting two T1 players on a T2 team would give them too much of an advantage. I bet him a beer that Chads team would win regardless of the competition they faced and they did 93-74. Thank you Katy for keeping the boys focused and for the beer

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #52 Posted: Feb 27 2013 12:26PM

Oh yeah W4 points are updated and the schedule too :)

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #53 Posted: Mar 5 2013 12:45PM

Foosball league tonight

Dont forget to check the schedule under the news section because we have made changes, especially in T2!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #54 Posted: Mar 6 2013 10:12AM

Week 5 points update is up. This marks the end of round 1.

BTY had fun playing ALLDAY. Good job MJ on the 5 bar

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #55 Posted: Mar 7 2013 5:35PM

I want to let all EFL members know that I will be making a change to the "points update" next round and that several changes will likely be occurring next season...

1) The "points update" will now include the scores that week. Nathan requested this and I think it is a great idea. FYI - at the end of this season captains can request the excel spreadsheets if they wish to review and check points. I have the files saved separately each week so it is easy to track changes.

2) Roger and I talked about tracking players stats next season. I will not do it personally because it will take to much time. However, if the captains of each team wish to track stats using a common spreadsheet I am willing to upload it to the news section on a regular basis. I will approach captains over the course of the next couple of weeks to discuss this further.

Now some concerns which are up for debate. I will not mention names, only concerns...

1) The "game night" points system does not reflect the "overall" points system. Wins/losses trumps "overall" points but come "game night" points determine who wins. Should league night change to most matches won and points be used to settle tie breakers? For example in the current system Team A can win S1,D1,S2,D2,S3 matches 7-6 each game to team B, except the last three matches (D3, S4, D4) where Team B wins 7-0 and Team B still wins the game; Final score Team A 70 Team B 102. The other way would be Team A 10 Team B 6.

2) Teams EEFC and FU are stacked with too many "pros", we should rate players and adjust the scores/ points required to win accordingly or shuffle some "pros" to lower ranked teams to make it more fair! I cant see to many players willing to jump ship to a lower ranked team. But if we rank each player based off points we could fair up the games that way. Your thoughts on this one?

Well folks, that is it for now, your comments/concerns are taken seriously but it is up to everyone to decide how they want this league run.

Author: Will Reply #56 Posted: Mar 7 2013 6:19PM

1a - Maybe we should just add the scores into the Schedule after games have completed. That way we would see what the scores were for each week.

2a - it's too much effort to be worth the reward to me as well Kyle. If someone wants to volunteer to be the "points calculator" they can step up and do it, but it would be tough to manage each team tracking their own.


1b - I think that it would negatively effect almost every single match if we changed it to Wins vs Goals.

I understand a team can win 5 times and lose 3 times but still win the night right now. That is totally acceptable to me. I would compare it to a hockey team winning the first (1-0) and second (2-0) period but then getting smoked in the 3rd period (2-4). The team that scored 4 goals in the third period wins the game.

More importantly - if you make it just wins then many games will be not very important. When one player is expected to blow out another player then BOTH players won't try as hard if it comes down to WINS. If a top pro is playing someone that they know they will beat, they just screw around and win 7-4 or something by playing funzie style. The lower player won't have as much fun because they know in the end they are going to lose going into it.

If it is GOALS then both players need to fight for every goal. If it is 5-0 and the lower player scores 3 goals and loses 7-3, there team is super pumped because there worst player just took 3 goals off a really good player. If only wins matter then it is irrelivant.

It makes every goal of the entire night matter.

Also, teams wouldn't put good players up against other good players. Lets say the teams are:



If Darcy's team gets to set the roster (i'll just use singles to simplify this) they won't put Darcy or Garry against Christian if WINS matter, they will put Maria up against Christain because it eliminates Christian from beating one of there best players. That makes for a really boring game for Christian and not a fun game for maria. If it is GOALS then Darcy wouldn't want Maria to potentially get 14-0'd, so a stronger player would face Christian and make it a much better match.

Author: Will Reply #57 Posted: Mar 7 2013 6:24PM


I would really not want to get into a scenario where we handicap each match. That also creates bad Foosball because nobody wants to move up in ranks.

The argument that those 2 teams are stacked with Pro's is not a good one. Even by Alberta ranking, EEFC has one pro and FU has 2. I guess Darcy and Ben should be considered more than Experts now, but that is what they are ranked.

If everyone thinks that the playing field does need to be evened out then we could try to come up with some sort of "Salary Cap" where everyone is ranked on a 1-10 scale or something and teams can't have more than a certain amount of skill points. The issue then becomes when someone cant show up and you add in subs, who can sub for who etc.

Overall I think that every team has a chance at winning every match in both tiers, with the unfortunate exception of Foosbrothers who appear to be stuck in a section where they are probably too good for Tier 2 but not good enough for Tier 1. If they wanted though, why not move into Tier 2 into the spot vacated by Crown Pub?

Author: .Garry Reply #58 Posted: Mar 8 2013 9:00AM

I agree with Will's points.

Total goals makes the night mean something in every game through the whole night. Wins would make the Christian-Maria scenario common.

Stacked teams can be a detriment for a small league. Keep in mind that Tom plays every other night-meaning he only plays each team once. When he does play Maria plays 1 doubles match-twice when he's not playing. We also play Dan regularly-They are both Tier 2 players playing on a Tier 1 team ie; leveling the playing field.

Ben & Darcy not being ranked Pro is based on their Western Canada Points-rightly or wrongly. Ben has played what??? 2 times with one of them being when Will wasn't playing.

Having Simon on hiatus??? makes BTY a much different team, putting Kyle or Ricardo in a match normally Simon would be playing. Hopefully that situation is resolved at some point. I personally would rather play BTY with him on the roster than not. For me a win or a loss is not as important as high level game.

Tracking personal stats in a team format... If you can do it without a lot of work, then sure. Just not that concerning to me.

Just my input...

Author: N8Perrott Reply #59 Posted: Mar 11 2013 10:22AM

I like Kyles idea about captains tracking their own teams personal stats. It has no effect on the league what these stats are other then maybe some competitive advantage in match ups. Would there be any way to upload the game sheets to the site (maybe linked to the schedule) so any team can track all stats if they choose? I don't think one person needs to be in charge of tracking everyone's stats.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #60 Posted: Mar 11 2013 6:10PM


There is a few of us looking into a new system altogether, one which will account for points and will be easy to use :)

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #61 Posted: Mar 11 2013 6:15PM

Hi League,

I talked with Mike C this afternoon. Mike feels it is best if Foosbrothers move to T2 and continue in the place of crown pub. No problem and good luck boys. I have adjusted the schedule accordingly.

This means BTY will be sitting out this week. If Ricardo, Christian, Simon or Steve wanna do some foosing give me a shout and lets meet up

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #62 Posted: Mar 13 2013 10:28AM

It is Wednesday morning and I have only received two texts with scores. Get your scores in!

Author: N8Perrott Reply #63 Posted: Mar 13 2013 12:05PM

Welcome to Tier two Foosbrothers!
Kyle, how are the points, wins/losses going to be adjusted to account for our newcomers?

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #64 Posted: Mar 14 2013 12:28AM


I don't know what is fair in this situation. I guess there is really only two options 1) carry their points over from T1 or 2)reset their points to zero

I will talk to Ray and see what his team feels is fair. Anyone else have a suggestion on this one?

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #65 Posted: Mar 14 2013 4:11PM

Hi folks,

I have posted the week 6 points update

I decided that Foosbrothers will carry their deficit to T2. This seems to be the fairest option. I know the brothers will do well in T2 and will bounce back in points quickly.

Where there was no change in the standings within T1 there was two shifts in T2. Foosballers took the lead from kunning stunts and FoosFighters took the lead from the Rocking Rollers. Great work Nathan and his crew - you guys have been doing very well

Steve M, Chris K and I, so far, are heading to Champs tonight. Swing by for a few games!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #66 Posted: Mar 18 2013 9:15PM

Hello everyone!

I hope everyone is getting excited for week 7 of league. Kunning Stunts have requested a reschedule. I have talked to Chris from Foosballers and he is checking with his team on whether Thursday or Saturday will work best.

Don't forget to check the schedule; AllDay is sitting out this week

Good luck teams and remember to send me the final scores at the end of the night

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #67 Posted: Mar 20 2013 11:20AM

Hi folks,

1) Does anyone know the score of EEFC vs OOR? Will dropped me a line and told me that EEFC won by one point, but I need to know the score

2) Darcy has made it abundantly clear that people who are already on a team CAN NOT sub on another team. I apologize to the league as I have made exceptions to this "rule" for several teams on several different occasions; I was unaware that there was a "written rule" outlining this and I was hoping someone could tell me where these rules are posted. I see there is a couple of rules under the home section, but nothing stating this directly. Once again, could someone let me know where these rules are posted so that I can get Will (or myself) to post them under the home section under a designated "rules" header

As you all know team BTY has suffered since Simon was asked to leave the league. Jamie quit the team as a result and I cannot find another permanent player to even make a team. I have been grabbing spares where I can. Last night I grabbed Simon and Mike J as a spare as I was out of town and all other spares couldn't be reached or couldn't make it out (Jamie, Tobin, Steve, etc) and BTY beat FU 95 to 82. I want to thank Simon and Mike J for helping the team out and great playing guys.
As a result of me breaking the "rules" I think it is only fair that we forfeit this game. FU will receive 112 points.

When I get back I will be discussing with the remaining team members of BTY (Christian and Ricardo) about folding the team. I am tired of hunting down subs. BTY was never my team it was Simon's team. The only way I will keep this team going is if Simon is "allowed" to come back permanently.

Regardless of the committees decision on Simon's return I will continue my duties as administrator for this season

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #68 Posted: Mar 20 2013 11:28AM

Kimber, Will, Darcy and Chad I want a decision by the end of the week

Author: S. Edwards Reply #69 Posted: Mar 20 2013 12:00PM

I don't have any desire to come back to the league. I was just subbing for one night to help my former team out as they needed a player. Apparently I broke a rule: I quote "a publicly banned player can't play that isn't publicly pardoned" I thought I quit. Now I’m really confused.

Anyway no need for a decision.

Thanks Kyle for taking over for BTY as captain. I know your decisions were made with the best interest of all players.

Author: RezaREX Reply #70 Posted: Mar 20 2013 12:07PM

Peace out league...If anyone wants to play pickup games at Beer Hunter West feel free to drop me a line.

Thanks to Kyle for all his efforts. It's too bad it had to come to this.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #71 Posted: Mar 20 2013 12:09PM

I will talk to Ricardo and Christian when I get back. I will no longer be captain of BTY, especially with this league's kangaroo court system which dictates who plays on my team and what the rules of the day are. Christian and Ricardo can take over if they wish. I am done!

Author: .Garry Reply #72 Posted: Mar 20 2013 12:48PM

Whether allowing Simon to play or Mike J to sub was correct or not, I don't believe that giving us a forfeit is right.

I come out each week to play foos and have fun. I enjoy the competition. I was the alternate Captain yesterday and could have balked at the improper subbing(a current Tier 1 player should not be allowed to play for another Tier 1 team...common sense), but i didn't.I could have even made a fuss about Simon playing while under suspension?/retirement, but I didn't. My team and I wanted to play foos and have fun, and we did. If we were "playing" for something other than pride ie; money/trophies, the decision might have been different.

Before Mike J was added Tuesday, and BTY short 1 player, I came up with an alternative-3 player format and 1 of our players would sit. This could have been frowned upon as well.

I know I am not on any "committee" but want my side of things presented.

Great playing Maria-Conrad-Dan-Rico suave-MJ- Christian & Simon. That was one of the most fun nights of league I have had in a while.

Author: Mike Reply #73 Posted: Mar 20 2013 2:07PM

Greetings Foosers

Ditto to Gary's comments

my prospective:

I have previous years of League experience
I had mentioned in a previous post that this was a young League and changes and restructuring were inevitable .. sigh

Kyle contacted me less than 20 hours before League night play would commence for BTY. Kyle was out of town with family matters and was still dedicated enough to try to salvage a team to present to FU.
( commedable all its own )

When asked if I could make it, I immediatly alluded to the potential conflict of interest. Kyle mentioned that the League supports helping each other out and further that he had already subbed in on another active team. With that confirmed I excepted that a precedent had been set, and things were cool. I also excepted that if any players on BTY or the opposing team had any issue with my playing I would graciously back out. When I arrived I was greeted by all players on both teams with hand shakes and smiles.

The points, winning , or losing were irrelevant to me for last nights match. I was requested to help out the league by subbing one night ... and of course enjoy a great night of foos. thats all

Author: Will Reply #74 Posted: Mar 20 2013 3:54PM

I think it was quite clear that Simon was kicked out... And you should have known better than to sub a player from a different team in the same tier. It would be a lot better for my team if FU was awarded a loss, but a forfeit or reschedule are the only options really. Half the team consisted of illegal players.

Kyle, you helped establish the "kangaroo court system"... And you would have been really pissed off if Simon or someone subbed in on a different team against your team. Just use common sense. What if on my teams bye week I showed up to play against your team... It just can't work like that and you know it.

Just to be clear, Jamie didn't quit because of anything relating to Simon or that situation either.

Author: Will Reply #75 Posted: Mar 20 2013 3:56PM

Who took the scoresheet last night?

Author: RezaREX Reply #76 Posted: Mar 20 2013 4:42PM

I'm not going to comment on the league or how it was run other than to say I have no interest in participating in its current form and management structure. If the majority of players enjoy the format, competition, and awards/reasons to play then by all means I wish you all continued enjoyment.

Also I think it's inappropriate to speculate on the reasons for another players decision to leave a team and it should be up that player alone to state his/her reasons if they so wish. I'm tired of the speculation/misinformation and bias being thrown around by all parties.

Author: S. Edwards Reply #77 Posted: Mar 20 2013 5:03PM

Topic: Finally Addressing the Simon situation Reply #9
Author: Will Posted: Feb 11 2013 1:23PM

Back from Portland so I can answer the questions now:
Simon - You quit


I'm organizing a BYP and Singles at time out Saturday night 8:30.

You are welcome to come out.

And if you want a goalie I'd pit for you too.

As one other Fooser in the league put it I'm allowed to play as long as it's in Will's favor.

I don't think you even know if I quit or was kicked out lol. GONG!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #78 Posted: Mar 20 2013 5:32PM

Hi folks,

1)Wayne Mah dropped me a line, the score was 87-86 for EEFC. I will update the points asap

2)BTY has officially folded (I cannot agree more with Christian's above comment). I am removing BTY from the schedule. As far as last nights game, it never happened and no points will be added/subtracted which should make EEFC and FU happy.

3)I will finish this season as an administrator, I am a believer in finishing what you started. However, I will no longer be responsible for finding substitutes, rescheduling or anything else other than updating points.

4) I am changing the finals format to reflect the changes noted in 2). There will no longer be a crossover between the two tiers in the final. Without a weighting system it is pointless in bringing a T2 team up to T1 and vice versa (I am sure everyone agrees with this but please correct me if you feel otherwise)

Once again I apologize for breaking the "rules" (although I have yet to find them anywhere). I truly thought this was a Chucky Cheese league and was about everyone coming out, playing hard and having fun. I refuse to have people dump on me for trying to keep a schedule, this is my reason for leaving the league.

I am working out a night with Simon where we can meet up at BHW and play a few games. I will keep you posted.

Have fun folks

Author: .Garry Reply #79 Posted: Mar 20 2013 6:02PM

"which should make EEFC and FU happy."

I was never unhappy with playing and competing regardless of the outcome. Flippy was the only unhappy one I believe.

I believe after this "season" a break is needed.

It's been good knowing BTY...see ya next year!

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #80 Posted: Mar 20 2013 6:27PM

Thanks Garry,

I should of rephrased that statement to "fair for both EEFC and FU"

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #81 Posted: Mar 20 2013 6:32PM

I have posted the Week 7 points update. FU and ALLDAY have their "make up" game on April 2 and Cunning Stunts and Foosballers have their make up game on Mar 28. I have made the changes to the finals on the schedule as well. Please let me know if you see any issues and I will make the appropriate changes

Author: KingCon Reply #82 Posted: Mar 20 2013 7:44PM

Hi Everyone this is Maria using Conrad's ID. I just want everyone to know. Despite all the conversations, discussions, rules, and points Me. Maria, scored 7 goals last night in my singles game!!!!!! who hoo!!!!

Author: .Garry Reply #83 Posted: Mar 20 2013 8:32PM


Maria was our rock-played well and had MJ shaking in singles.

Great playing

Author: S. Edwards Reply #84 Posted: Mar 21 2013 8:04AM

Didn't Chris Kerr (a tier one player) sub in on a tier 2 team?

Kyle brought in a player of an equal skill level to his own. He didn't ask a Pro player to sub. But it was ok that Matt Botros subbed in. Your point is pointless.

Darcy is the only one that had a melt down over this. The rest of the team was asked prior to the match and were 100% unanimous that Mike could play. Also, both Darcy and Garry have known for weeks I was subbing in. There was no protest at that time.

One last comment. The league management does not have the right to stop league players from playing Foosball at their place of choice. Telling Kyle that you don't want league players playing on Kyles and Darcy's table at champs on non league nights just shows how the leadership has deteriorated into a paranoid dictator.

Author: Will Reply #85 Posted: Mar 21 2013 2:20PM

Chris was on the roster of he tier 2 team he played on, then he subbed in on the tier 1 team later - we have only used him in tier 1 since the tier 2 team changed there name.

Matt subbed in and I got him to sub in against my team to make it fair. I wouldn't have let him sub on my team against another team. As long as 2 pro max is kept it is fine though.

I also don't really have an issue with Mike playing.

I never said that people shouldn't go to champs on non-league nights. I have gone there 3 times already, and I invited a lot of people there, on non-league nights. I think it is awesome for Foos that there is a good table in a university location. I don't know how you heard that but it's false info or just made up. Quit trying to make me look bad every chance you get. Everyone knows you are just being malicious again towards me so I don't really have to defend myself about all of this.

Kyle said the best way to promote this is to have lots of small locations to spread the current player base around, I disagree with that. I think we do need lots of locations, but we need to have each place develop a player base on its own. If league players just go kick everyone's ass all the time people won't play. My suggestion is to have a night at Champs designed to promote to university kids. Kyle has some ideas that turned out to be very similar to that, copying a format he played in Houston. Looks like everything is going good on that front.

Great job Maria!

Author: S. Edwards Reply #86 Posted: Mar 21 2013 6:40PM

"I also don't really have an issue with Mike playing"

Are you bipolar ?

Author: .Garry Reply #87 Posted: Mar 22 2013 9:07PM

Better to be bipolar than bi-curious.

Author: S. Edwards Reply #88 Posted: Mar 22 2013 10:27PM

Why are you winking at me

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #89 Posted: Mar 23 2013 3:08PM

I have nothing but great things to say about the individuals in this league, however right now I am having a problem with the league format itself...

The league needs some revamping and this cannot be done without stepping on some toes. I am thinking about how this can be done and I admit I don't have all the answers. Essentially I want to create a new league! I would love to continue with the EFL brand but with Will at the helm it may be very difficult to modify; Will is insistent that he retains control over the league. But the league needs changes and new blood

Some of my thoughts for this new league (and feel free to add input where you see fit)

a) no president or ownership of the league. The league will simply have an administrator and three or four committee members. The committee will be responsible for managing league format, regulation of properly defined rules, and organizing events. The committee should be made up of respected players who are ambitious individuals. Committee members should be rotated as well, perhaps not all at once, but periodically to bring new ideas and concepts to this new league.

b) The league will have a similar set up to the old Walmac league. ALL TEAMS PLAY each other!!! NO TIERS!!! Every player carries a weight and the games will be weighted accordingly. This will challenge both strong and weak players and allow for equal opportunity to win. Stats will be recorded and posted in a timely manner.

c) Every week we introduce one fun event (goalie wars, four on four or something that reminds players that this league is fun and players should have a good time.

d) Money payouts. I dont know how I feel about this. When $$$ is on the line players get competitive, they also get stupid and forget why they are playing in the first place. Keep $$$ for weekly tournaments? However, money/trophies/etc make people take the league seriously and show up to their matches. This will need to be worked out.

e) All players should be encouraged to scout for new players. I know this is easier said than done. But if the league wants to grow to great heights this is what needs to be done. I originally planned to tackle recruiting with Darcy exclusively, however I need the leagues help too. I will be spending a couple nights a week promoting close to universities (Grant Mac, UofA, Concordia and Nait). I hope to have four tables up and running soon. This is where Will and I have a difference in opinion. Will wants a centralized league out of TO and I want to branch to several different locations.
An example of how this could work would be rotating locations on Thursdays and Saturdays to these different locations and setting up weekly tournaments.
What I want to avoid is JUST having league members show up. The league members that do show up need to take newbies under there belt and encourage them to keep coming out. This is something I commend Will on, Will is always the first player to grab a newbie and start a game (something we all could learn to do more often). I don't want to see experienced players throttle every rookie duo who show up to play. This is discouraging to any new player, we need to get them hooked and not have them run for the hills.

I am gonna start flyering next week and spreading awareness on different media outlets which are popular with the students. This is not easy and will likely mean I will need to divy out a % of the payouts to a promoter for running his ass off to attract people. Weekly tournaments will be affordable (5 bucks/some free) and Pro/am mandatory for obvious reasons.

These are some of my ideas. What are your thoughts?

And Simon

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #90 Posted: Mar 23 2013 3:16PM

I will be meeting with Simon, Christian, Darcy and others when I return to start planning. If you have ideas lets talk about them. I agree with Garry, we need a break. This will give us the opportunity to organize the new league

Chat soon

Author: IBFN Reply #91 Posted: Mar 23 2013 10:08PM

That sounds awesome!

Author: N8Perrott Reply #92 Posted: Mar 27 2013 9:36AM

I have read all the posts as of late about the league format and potential changes and what not. And im not opposed to changes. However i just want to make the point that it seems like all of these issues are streaming down from Tier 1. Unless there are issues i am unaware of, those of us in Tier 2 are having a great season. With the exception of crown pubs no shows (which the league dealt with properly) we all show up to our games and play awesome Foosball. I feel like i speak for everyone (in tier 2) when i say we all get along and genuinely enjoy each-others company on foos night. The format works well and the there is excellent competition each night. For myself and my team i know that we show up to each match wanting to win, but when and while we are loosing we are always supportive of great plays from the other team. I joined this league to get better at Foosball which is a great game to play! Maybe tier 2 doesn't have the same issues because our level of compete isn't as high. But when i go to Time Out for pick up games with tier 1 players it seems like everyone enjoys themselves and there are no issues. I would challenge the tier 1 players to stop bickering, show up to foos night, play foos, drink beer, and have a great night with everyone. At the end of the day we aren't playing for Lord Stanley with millions of dollars on the line. It's just a friendly game of foos.


Author: Andy99 Reply #93 Posted: Mar 27 2013 12:16PM

I agree with Nate on this. Although some rule changes may need to be in order to prevent any further porblems. My team and I always have a lot of fun playing in Tier 2, and there has never been any problems with any of the other teams. Hell, we even supply subs for our opposed teams at times!

Anyway, i hope this doesn't have to much of an adverse effect on the league as i have a been having great time playing since it all started up.

Author: RezaREX Reply #94 Posted: Mar 27 2013 12:30PM

I just want to make clear that the below statement is aside from any of the personal, business, or league rules issues that have been discussed recently.

"At the end of the day we aren't playing for Lord Stanley with millions of dollars on the line. It's just a friendly game of foos."

While there's nothing wrong with that sentiment for the majority of players it's something I have trouble relating to. Having competed for Team Canada in France for the World Cup and countless other tournaments across Canada and the United States I have played against the best players in the world. I've seen what it takes to get to that level and what it feels like to be in that environment. Imagine an NHL player making the playoffs and winning a round or two then just going to play in the East Coast league. How fun is it going to be for that guy. If your game is good enough to beat the majority of players just by executing then you just go through the motions and turn off your brain. The real fun (for me) in this game is when people push you both mentally and from an execution standpoint. When you have to continually be making smart adjustments to your game to keep up.

This is nothing against the league or it's players as I think it's a great thing for people to come out, have fun, drink beer, and learn the game. I just wanted to explain from my perspective why I would rather spend my time in a more competitive tournament environment where something of value is at stake (and yes I know "value" means different things to different people). Or just play a night of 1 on 1 or doubles against players that can challenge you in different ways.

I still want to play a lot and I don't mind the odd fun Saturday night to mess around but it's not fair to my teammates if my desire to improve my trickshots outweighs my desire to win a league night.

I'm speaking only for myself obviously so don't take this as the "Tier 1 perspective". Good luck to all the teams and happy foosing!!!

Author: .Garry Reply #95 Posted: Mar 27 2013 1:00PM

There is not a huge group of Tier 1 players that are bickering/fighting, only a select few need to overcome their issues for the good of foos.

Living in a smaller city like we do, it hurts that there is this recent divide that is keeping all of the top players apart. The only way top level players improve their games is by playing as many other top players as possible to challenge their physical & mental skills as Christian states.

The only way that beginner players improve their game is by playing a multitude of top level players, observing,questioning & learning.

Hopefully one day this will happen, but with egos involved, and feelings hurt, I don't believe this is in the near future.

Having a "new" league mentioned by a few people may divide us even more than we are now, which is not going to help grow foos for the short term. Long term???

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #96 Posted: Mar 27 2013 1:14PM

I have no beef with anyone in the EFL, nor are my feelings hurt, nor is my ego in an way. I assure you that the second league will not interfere with Will's business. I have ensured Will that we are not out to compete for players, and we will schedule around EFL if necessary.

Keep you posted

Author: Will Reply #97 Posted: Mar 27 2013 4:36PM

Kyle, when you post things like this without consulting me or even discussing it with me I feel like you cant really say you aren't trying to interfere with the EFL:
Essentially I want to create a new league! I would love to continue with the EFL brand but with Will at the helm it may be very difficult to modify; Will is insistent that he retains control over the league. But the league needs changes and new blood

When Chad and I started the league, with help from a lot of people, in 2008 it was a very very different league than it is now. I have taken everyone's opinion and discussed different formats and options for years, we have changed the format a ton of times to help make sure everyone is having a good time. I feel a little offended that you want to turn your back on me like that and try to cast me out or whatever it is you are trying to do.

I don't understand how you can say I don't want a committee, either. I have always wanted that and I have done my best to get other people to give opinions all the time. If you want to be involved in promoting and growing Foosball in Edmonton, do it with me and not against me.

Author: Will Reply #98 Posted: Mar 27 2013 4:51PM

Great post Christian - I completely understand where you are coming from. Feel free to come back and play if you ever want to. We have some BYPs and Singles tournaments scheduled over the summer, they are tiered to make sure that the best players such as yourself face stiff competition the entire night. They are posted in the news section

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #99 Posted: Mar 27 2013 6:04PM

Sure lets get it out in the open

A league should be governed by committee members, who are appointed to represent the league. Yes, we agreed to this a few months back and a committee was formed, albeit some of the people appointed were confused as to why they were chosen in the first place. The committee seemed to resolve a couple of issues (Crown, etc). However, when the infamous issue of Simon's actions arose it was you that said he had to leave for the best interest of the league. I immediately challenged you on this. My concern was that you cannot kick a fellow member out of the league because you feel it is the right thing to do. It sets a bad example. Others actions such as a three-strike rule or a verbal warning were necessary. I inquired into your concerns, nonetheless and you were wrong, most individuals were impartial on the subject and others seemed to like Simon.

I pleaded with both Simon and you to resolve your issues. In both cases I was met with a wall; you wanted him to leave and Simon thought you were a @#$#. At some point we did reach a resolution. Simon agreed to come back for the start of this season and to be on his best behavior. You were not impressed about this.
All was well till the night before our second match when I received a text from you regarding a text message you received from Simon. It was vulgar and will not be repeated here. You said he has been kicked out of the league and "if you don't like it, feel free to leave the league". I felt terrible at the time. I even apologized to you for sticking up for Simon, after all he did tell me there would be no more issues. The problem was you failed to tell me you sent several harassing messages to him before receiving that text. You lied to me. To be frank if I received such messages I would of said much worse to you.

When you gave me the "take it or leave" attitude I realized this is your league and there is no point in even having a committee. What is the point of setting up a committee to deal with issues if one person has the right to veto a committee members decision? As well you did say "if you don't like it, feel free to leave the league", so I did.

The night I opened at champs (I am leaving Darcy out of this) you showed up to issue me a warning. I was not have any EFL members show up at Champs, they stay at TO. I was allowed newbies only. I was pissed, how dare you tell me what I can and cannot do. The next time you showed up you wanted in on my "business". I refused, I don't trust you, I would never go into business with someone with such a colorful resume.

"Essentially I want to create a new league! I would love to continue with the EFL brand but with Will at the helm it may be very difficult to modify; Will is insistent that he retains control over the league. But the league needs changes and new blood"

Now you understand why, or I hope you do

"I feel a little offended that you want to turn your back on me like that and try to cast me out or whatever it is you are trying to do."

Nope, I am not trying to cast you out at all. The EFL is your business/league, and yours to do what you want with. What I was really hoping for was for you to scrap your idea that you own this league and all the individuals in it - no president/no ownership and let a committee run the league like it should be done.

Author: Will Reply #100 Posted: Mar 27 2013 6:27PM

WOW Kyle.

A: I never warned you not to have league players at Champs, or I didnt think of it that way. I went there to play foosball, and I invited league players to Champs to play foosball too. I have always supported the other locations in Edmonton.

B: I dont know what texts you think I sent to Simon provoking him. I sent you a screen shot of ALL the texts back when you agreed to kick him out. I didnt provoke him and I showed you what I sent him, then you agreed to kick him out with me. The only texts I have sent to him since then were inviting him out to foos so we could patch things up. I didnt invite him out so I had a better chance of winning as he put it. I knew I could win with any partner, and already had both Matt and Christian as potential partners.

C: I have offered so many times to Simon to work things out, he has no interest in doing that. He cant publicly bash me and expect to be a part of the league.

It is clear that you sat down with Simon and he tricked you into taking his very strange point of view on all of this. Anyway - I guess you are off the committee lol.

I guess I am going to just run the league as an evil dictatorship now. Enjoy it.

Author: WELL-ZE Reply #101 Posted: Mar 27 2013 6:41PM

Are you insane or deranged?

Author: S. Edwards Reply #102 Posted: Mar 27 2013 6:57PM

Why did you invite me out? Did you miss me? I thought maybe you were feeling guilty lol

And who the hell is Christian going to get any stiff competition from if I'm not there

and Kyle made up his own mind I didn't have anything to do with his decision. He just calls it as he sees it.

I guess foos at Dukes will be hurt hard with all these events your planning on running on Thursdays. Weren't you and Darcy partners at one point?

Author: Will Reply #103 Posted: Mar 27 2013 7:08PM

Simon, I invited you so we could smooth this shit out without just bickering on a message board or via text. I offered another olive branch which was yet again pushed away.

If Darcy wants me to add any events for any of his locations to the schedule I will be more than happy to do it.

There is a group of players on every Thursday, Saturday, and Tuesday at Time Out regardless and I am sure that the Dukes thursdays will continue.

Darcy doesn't come on here and say anything against me because we dont have any problems with each other. I will continue to come out to Dukes once in a while and I will keep his locations on the Where To Play section and even tell people to go there. I have sent a lot of people there if they are located in the north side.

Author: Will Reply #104 Posted: Mar 27 2013 7:47PM

this isnt worth my time any more

Author: Will Reply #105 Posted: Mar 27 2013 7:56PM

I guess just to keep my name clear Ill say that "Darcy doesn't come on here and say anything against me because we dont have any problems with each other."

Author: Barry Reply #106 Posted: Mar 28 2013 1:13AM

I really would rather not get involved in the drama that has unfolded in this thread and other threads, but because I think that many of the contributors here aren't seeing the forest for the trees, I’m hoping that a perspective from the outside looking in might be helpful.

To be brutally honest, this whole thing is embarrassing and I shouldn't have read most of it…. No one should have. Thankfully, it looks like many of the posts have already been removed. Disagreements and disputes are inevitable in any organization… the fact that they occur says very little about the individuals involved. However, what speaks volumes about the character of the organization and the individuals within it is how resolution is achieved. Speaking from personal experience, it is impossible to work out personal differences in public ….. egos are involved and no-one will ever offer a sincere apology in a public forum. Sarcasm, publicly airing grievances and taking pot-shots does absolutely nothing to resolve anything… it only raises defenses and fuels the fire.

If you are sincere about resolving your issues, do it one on one and face to face…. or at least privately by phone or email, a public forum is not the place.

Edmonton has an awesome player base with some of the best players in the country. It is the envy of most other Canadian cities that are trying to grow the sport. What you have should be thoughtfully cared for; otherwise it will be only a memory before you know it.

The only reason that I’m adding my 2 cents to this discussion is because I love this game and want to see it grow. I consider many of the contributors on this thread friends and I hope that my comments don’t change that.

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