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Topic: 2-Bar set up for Pull shot

Author: Will Original Message Posted: Jun 27 2012 2:29PM

Interesting thread related to setting up the ball when you are shooting a pull from the 2 row.

The question was asked:

I`ve noticed that some of the top goalies set the ball up directly at the upper wall. Others however set it up 7 inches of the wall. What are the pros and cons of each? What`s the logic behind it?

I'll pick out the answers that are written by Pro's and Master's..

Mike Archer(Pro Goalie):
Closer to the wall you set up, the harder it is to shoot a long pull. Very few set it up right on the wall, most are a coupe of inches off. There are some that set up on the outside line. You gain a long pull, but lose a lot of slice/spray options that way.

Folks have been very effective with either one - it is mostly a matter of understanding the pros and cons and picking what works best for you. Generally speaking, setting up on the line means you are going for more points since you are almost in front of the goal, but you will also get stuffed a little more often since you are shooting more (and the defense knows this).

Dennis Ory (Pro):
I think it doesn't matter much where you set up the ball as long as you use the options presented to you by the defense. So, many people set up the ball, and already have the same 3 planned shots they do on everyone. Sometimes it works for them and other times the defense arrangement doesn't cater to their shot selection.

If you look at Diaz's fundamental shot, it is not very strong, he doesn't having blazing speed or any of that, but what he does do well is use all the various options depending on the defense. Meaning...he will hit the tuck back pass, sliders across, pull kick shot/pass.

After many years, I can only think of very few players ever, who can consistently set the ball on the wall, and go very long with enough speed and accuracy to be dangerous.

on a side note, I don't think personally enough passing is happening at any level of the game. A few teams tend to do it more, but at the lower pro and lower ranks, its almost non-existent.

Joe Hamilton (I think he is Pro-Master now?): I'm also completely baffled as to why there is not more passing seen from the goalie in doubles.

Some of the toughest goalies I come up against (outside of the masters), are the ones who pass well.

Randy Price, and Joe Clark are two goalies that come to mind. Neither of them have blistering shots, but are smart and feed their partners very well. It then opens up easier shots because you cannot afford to have the opposing forward get easy possessions on the 3 bar.

Doubles is mainly won by the forward who gets the most possessions up front, so why WOULDNT you pass more?

As a goalie, I prefer to set it up on the line like Diaz. If he can get away with it without having Billy type technique when shooting then I believe I can also. Its just about being smart and figuring out what the options are for where you set it up.

Brandon Moreland (Pro Master goalie that has spent a lot of time partnered with Tony and Ryan):
It really does depend on who you play with. Some forwards are great at scrapping for the ball but can't catch a pass to save their lives. Others pick up passes better.

A good goalie adapts to their partner. With the scrapper I'm going to work the sprays and soft floater options that bounce around the table for loose ball chances. The partner that catches passes well will get a good amount of passes that are being left by the opposing forward. It's probably a good idea to take a time out midway through the 1st game to discuss what options are open against each team.

It's all very hard to quantify. You see goalies that get the ball to their forwards 3bar without ever attempting one pass. Ramming the ball off the goalie rods for an easy 3bar catch is just as good as a well executed pass.
Other goalies look for passes all the time and make a few. It may seem effective but the large amount turnovers from soft attempts down the table out weigh the possitives. The goalies that do both are called Todd Loffredo.

As far as where you set up on the table goes .. You set as close to the wall as you can while still being able to extend the defense by hitting a good long. If a good defensive forward doesn't have to worry about a long, they will eat u up with steals or stuffs.
It's nice to have both to help you adapt to the defense. Last year at TX state in the finals I was turning the ball over like it was my job. My forward asked me to set the ball really far off the wall which is not something I have ever tried. 5 points in 2 games later I was thinkin...damn, wish he had told me that sooner.

Author: Will Reply #1 Posted: Jun 27 2012 2:34PM

Any of the better 2 row shooters around here care to add some insight?

Simon, I'd like to hear about your thoughts... You set up on the wall sometimes, but in front of the net other times.

Eric Goodman or Brian Loeppky? Maybe Jeff Allen?

Author: Pixel Reply #2 Posted: Jun 27 2012 3:45PM

Here, I can reply for Eric:

Hulk smash.

Author: Pixel Reply #3 Posted: Jun 27 2012 3:46PM

Author: Will Reply #4 Posted: Jun 27 2012 5:10PM

How about weighing in with some 2 bar advice from a World Champion goalie Mario??

Author: perennial underdog Reply #5 Posted: Jun 27 2012 5:10PM

My 2 cents.As to the pull(or any other shot for that matter) and set up from the 2 bar,the answer is simple.It's subjective.Everyone has their own
stroke,their own game,and their own level of talent.That being said,it's alright to emulate another player's stroke but sometimes this can impact
negatively on the rest of one's game.

For example,if I diligently practice my 2 bar pull,I almost invariably find that my 3 bar pull suffers.So then I will focus on my push from my two
bar,which usually clears well,sometimes scores and does not adversely
affect my 3 bar.

Moreover,Will,when you refer to 'being smart and figuring out what the options are,'this will of course be contingent upon many factors.That is,who is your opponent,what are his or tendencies,are they usually alert enough to be watching for the pass and if so are they quick enough to stop it.Another factor is the the tenor of the game.Again this is not a hard and fast rule but the following is what I find usually works.

The intensity of a match usually permits or does not permit for more 2 bar to 3 bar passing.In other words,as the intensity of the match increases,the passing lanes become increasingly open.Why?One obvious reason is because your opponents are focused on protecting the heart of their net and are thus less concerned with the periphery of the same.

In the end,I guess I would just suggest that you focus on playing your game and what works for you and less on what others are doing,which may not only not work for you,but may actually end up hurting your game.

Author: Will Reply #6 Posted: Jun 27 2012 5:11PM

also - LOL at Hulk Smash

Author: tony Reply #7 Posted: Jun 27 2012 6:17PM

hmmm. best 2 bars pull shots i think i've seen..

loffredo. mcmillan. adkisson. none of the guys in the Foos board thread. honourable mention to Archer.

But Loffredo responded to this thread years back on the maryland'd have to look it up..

Loeppky.... why don't you reply.. since i'm thinking you have the best 2 bar in Canada right now. at least when some read your response it'll have come from a reasonable authority on the matter.

Author: Sniff Reply #8 Posted: Jun 27 2012 8:22PM

Some Quick thoughts, Tommy's 2 bar is nowhere near papz or loffredo, who are in a league of their own. So I would watch them on tape, Ryan is great in singles, but those 2 are still the only two IMO that can intimidate their opponents from the 2 row.. Passing is tough against guys like tony who race passes and smash them back at you twice as fast. Moreland gave some good advice on the thread, so not much to add to the other posts.. Confidence is everything, then you should have two ways to get to each hole. Other than that, I'm not a fan of the top wall, unless the opponent is all over everything and you need to adjust. I could say a lot more but I've been trash on tour as late and can never play like i do at home, so I could have it all wrong.

Author: S. Edwards Reply #9 Posted: Jun 28 2012 12:16AM

I gota agree with Jeff. Pappas 2 bar pull shot is probably the best I've seen. He seems to usually set up with about an inch(25mm for you young-uns) between the bumper and the wall.

Author: Sniff Reply #10 Posted: Jun 28 2012 4:33PM

He sets it up there or one the line. It works better for his strengths (square short, spray short, and square long, pull kick long) and hides his weaknesses (spray long). If your going to be on the line, like T-mac, you have to have awesome sprays, which he does.

Author: dfnder Reply #11 Posted: Jun 30 2012 4:06AM

If you shoot like Loffredo set up as he does.

It all depends first on what your skill set is AND where you are most comfortable shooting from.

1) Usually where you are most comfortable is where you have had the most success in the past - which isn't a bad place to start.
2) how does this spot match up with the defense you are facing? Is the D giving sprays or square shots? What passes can you hit on the D that will go well with your shots on net?
3) what options do you have from every set up point... ie. is your forward sucking on the 5 and in DIRE NEED of the ball or do you need to score?

As you can start to see the set up point on the two row is only the first variable in the equation. The equation is in flux after your first possession and you will likely have to mix things up the whole match.

There are few players that can shoot all options well from a set point and a good D will start to limit those options after they see the first shot. Changing set points and a good passing/shooting mix will keep your options at a maximum.

I have set up the ball anywhere from the wall to the goalie post on a tornado for a pull, do what works... or find an alternative.

Enjoy the puzzle

Author: Darcy Reply #12 Posted: Jul 3 2012 10:41AM

I highly recommend setting up next to the wall and going open hand down the middle. One of two things can happen: you can raise the ball, hit a bar along the way and get a clear off the table, or you can mis-exicute and it will bank into the opposing goal. Either way, nothing bad ever happens.

Author: S. Edwards Reply #13 Posted: Jul 3 2012 11:56AM

I think you should go back to the squeeze shot

Author: Sniff Reply #14 Posted: Jul 3 2012 1:06PM

Very sound advice. Open Hands all day.

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